So...

Both are 8 Core x86 CPU
Both run AMD
GDDR5 ram is a good thing for the PS4
You dont HAVE to use voice commands
500GB HDD Cant be upgraded I never used more than that anyways, plus you could buy and external USB 3 drive
You dont have to pay for the game again, just log in.
My kinect is always connected anyways, no biggie.
PS4 is not backwards compatible either.

I suggest you go take a look at the Architecture stream that was on to show how the system will actually run.

-You have to use voice commands to go home.
-I have over 2TB of games on my PC HDD at home. They have not confirmed that you can use external HDDs
You do have to pay for the game again if you want to inssert it in to a new console.
Fair enough. What about people who do not want to use connect or there room is to small?
But it has good cloud storage where there will be a massive back catolog of PS2 and PS3 games.

Both are running x86 which is greating for porting games over from PC. :-)

---

This whole argument between you all is pathetic.
Let me tell you a few straight facts so you can stop saying false statements.

- You don't have to use the kinect voice to go home, it will work the same as before where you can still operate it by pressing a couple of buttons.

Source? i don't remember M$ saying that.

- You have 2TB games on PC. Unless you have torrented them, you are speaking out of your backside.

I will post a screenshot later of my games folder. At college atm.

Games on PC always take up much more space anyway, look at BF3 for example.. On PC that is about a 20GB game, look at consoles and it is less than 10GB. PC games are always more because there is so much more you do with them.

That was obviously because of console limitations of the last gen. This gen will not have them limiatoins so the size of the games will be roughly the same for exmaple max payne 3 on pc is 25gb i think.

- You do not have to pay for a game again to be able to play it somewhere else. Everything is operated by this "Cloud". Once you install the game on your XBox, it is recognised that you have the game so you will be able to play it anywhere you want as long as you are connected to XBL.

In my last post in just realised about that. Major Nelson is also holding a conferance later to clear up any speculation about the console

---

Let's talk about your so-called "cons".

Kinect must be connected and functioning at all times...

- Incorrect. Kinect must be connected and functioning to be able to use VOICE COMMANDS to turn it on. You can still use the power button if you find it that annoying.
You can still operate the system completely without kinect, it is only used for VOICE and GESTURES.

Why should i have to have a mandotory kinect plugged in at all times when it is not benifitiing me in anyway at all?

Buttons replaced etc.

- Yes, the Back and Start buttons have been replaced, and you think that this will be a disadvantage? It's not like they have completely removed the ability to pause a game etc. That's just complete stupidity. The home button has been removed because there is no longer a need for it. If the ability of the two new buttons are able to perform the same function, why keep it? Voice commands are not replacing everything, you can still operate the system as normal with a controller, like I said before.

Good point

Kinect 2.0

- I'm not even going to waste my time explaining an argument on why you think Kinect 2.0 is a con. This is absurd to even say so, everything about the Kinect 2.0 has improved and there is no hardware piece available for gamers or people that need a similar device anywhere. Especially when the Kinect 2.9 is able to track more joints then before, free your body to do what you want. Up to 6 people can use the Kinect at once, it recognises movement of different joins, as well as the rotation of said joints. The camera is able to work in any kind of light due to the standard camera as well as an IR camera to give complete vision of the player. Also, it recognises depth better than ever before.

Will just add price to the initial console

Kinect built in at the start

- I don't understand why if you could have something that enables you to do so much more with a machine, why it would be a con? You think that because everyone will have a kinect to begin with, it is somehow bad now? Of course Kinect will have more support, it is one of the major components that make the system function to its best use.

Will just add price to the initial console

Games cannot be taken to friends house bla bla

- Yes they can. Games are stored to your hard drive and are accessed via the cloud so you do not have to worry about anything like that. With the "you must sign in"... That's just common sense, if you were able to just give your games away, that would lose people money. So essentially with this point is that you are saying because you can't get free games, the console is awful.

What if you lend a game to a friend and you want to access your account from home?

Mandatory install

- This isn't a con at all. Installing games for one increases the speed at which the game can load, it allows the system to verify the game integrity which will in turn stop potential hackers as the game is read for verification before being able to be played.

So a MANDATORY installation is not a con. Yes the advantages are good but i should not HAVE to install the game. Second point is valid

No HDD upgrade

- It said Standard model is 500GB. If you want more than that, buy a different damn model! I'm sure there will be external support for other hard drives later on, they have already said you can use external USB drives. If you manage to fill your HDD, you are downloading or using memory on pointless things such as Demos that you no longer play, etc.

If there is an upgradable option then great, but i can see myself filling this up rather quickly. Good point on the external.

no backwards compatibility

Neither does the PS4 so don't get your knickers in a twist. Sony had said that they are using a 3rd party's software to bring the old arcade games forward, which will be a waste of time.. If you wanted to play them still, just turn on your PS3 for God's sake!

I was saying that the PS4 has a massive back catolog on it's streaming service which you mentioned about of PS2 and PS3 games.

Internet connection

This really is a pointless statement. Most households have internet, especially the ones that will be purchasing any next-gen console. The synchronisation of the system means that it will be able to be a more secure system, will be able to operate much faster and allow you to access all of your content as you require it.

How is this pointless. What if you live in a rural area, your connection goes down for a week or you go on holiday? It should not be mandotory for me to have to connect to the internet every 24 hours, it's just an inconvienience.

Debatable pros points

Moaning about 8GBs of RAM

- For starters, 8GB RAM is more than enough to do whatever you want the system to do, sure PS4 DDR5 RAM is better but 8GB DDR3 isn't a con for the system what-so-ever.

GDDR5 is still better in the long run.

processors

- So you are actually saying that upgrading the processors is a con? The 1.2 TF is a rumoured amount. They didn't actually confirm it was the final amount. Plus I'm sure that if they really wanted to, they could boost it up to whatever they needed it to be to be on par with PS4.

Ha, no I was not saying that at all i was just saying that the PS4 was a better processer better ram because it is GDDR5 and also a better GPU

Blu-ray

- This is a pro, blu ray allows more space to fit on a disc. Just because playstation already has it, doesn't mean it isn't a pro for XBox. By your logic here nearly everything that exists will be awful because something already has it.. The idea of improvement is that you take what is the best idea and use it; this is exactly what Microsoft have done here.

"This is already on the PS4 and a pro" section

Kinect 2.0

- You are repeating your pointless argument again.

See my post below

Kinect built in

- Again ^

This will just add price to the initial console. If they do a deal where it is JUST the console and not Kinect then that would be great.

better controller

- Of course it is to be expected. So what you are saying is that because you knew it was going to happen, it isn't a Pro? If you had actually taken the time to research a little more you'd realise how much the new controller improves the system.

That is why i said it is a debatable pro and i also agree with you on this

Multimedia

- Regardless of where it first appears, it is still a benefit for the system as a whole

Agreed

GS carries over

- You might not see it as a pro but many gamers play to be able to get their GS up, to achieve their goals and to show what they have accomplished. To have the hard-earned gamerscore carry across after spending countless hours and hundreds of reloading checkpoints to gain that extra achievement means a lot to some people. This is all a matter of opinion as to whether it is a pro.

Good point

Games play from HDD

- No the games aren't worth 'nothing'. It has already been confirmed that you can trade in and get a small reimbursement.

I'm talking about the physical disk. Once you activate it online you cannot trade the physical disk in and get a better reimbursement than you would with M$

Built in DVR

- Again, just because the PS4 has it, doesn't mean it isn't a pro! It is a good benefit for both machines. Regardless of who said "i had done it first", things are always going to be a great addition.

Should be in the "This is already on the PS4 and a pro" section.

Access content owned by others

- This is still a pro. It was available on the 360 anyway, the point they were making was that there were rumours saying only the account that had purchased game X would be able to access it. This was just dismissing rumours.

Maybe i should have had a list of "This is already on the PS4 and a pro" This would be part of my list.

reimburse bla bla

- Of course you are going to pay full price for the next game! Unless you are some cheap, little scavenger that lives off of illegal downloads and torrents, you will pay for your game. I don't know of anything that exists that says "here, come and take every game for free because you traded back in one.." This point is just moronic.

Second hand games?

Not always online - It should be anyway...

- You are contradicting yourself here. Your points earlier about the internet connection being required go against this completely.

I meant this should not have been a worry in the first place. Sorry for the confusion

/rant

I have posted my reponses in bold just below yours.

Fair points, I'm glad you weren't going to be one of the standard "all your points are wrong, shut up" responses.
We'll have to wait and see for definite answers to some of these points.

So, in conclusion, I'm sure we can both agree that:

1. Kinect as a "must-have" isn't beneficial for the people never intending to use it.
2. Xbox has taken a few ideas from what Sony have said about PS4 (Or already had the ideas/plans to do it but Sony revealed first)
3. The potential system may not be as good for people with low/no access to Internet


Finally a discussion that hasn't ended in "GTFO noob sftu no idea what you are talking about" - *insert more stereotypical CoD fanboy sayings*

They're not going to hit rock bottom , this console is the next generation of gaming,television,movies,music,etc. This is just your opinion. Just because you don't like doesn't mean everyone else feels the same way. Microsoft is trying their best to improve the xbox experience & you don't like it because of a Hard drive that cannot be updated & a few other cons?
Microsoft will be making lots of big bucks off of this.
At least they're not making a bs console that isn't worth anything. This post is pathetic.... :facepalm:

-Deano wrote

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Jamy wrote

-Deano wrote [spoil]

Jamy wrote

CMYK_ wrote [spoil]

Jamy wrote

CMYK_ wrote

Jamy wrote

CMYK_ wrote

Jamy wrote

Luckza wrote One of the biggest companies bringing out the most advanced home game system thus far and you think they'll hit rock bottom; I think not.

How is it advanced. Bahahah

It is more advanced than their current offering...therefore it is advanced.

Thinking they will fail because of a few minor things mentioned is ridiculous.

But it's not as good as the PS4 that will be there downfall.

How is it not as good???

I fail to see any real merit in your arguement

Less GPU power and not GDDR5 ram. You don't have to connect to the internet every 24 hours with the PS4. You have to use voice commands to go home, really... Can;t take games over to a mates house without paying for the game AGAIN. mandotory install. 500gb HDD can't be ugraded. Can't be used without Kinect. No backwards compatitbilty at all.

So...

Both are 8 Core x86 CPU
Both run AMD
GDDR5 ram is a good thing for the PS4
You dont HAVE to use voice commands
500GB HDD Cant be upgraded I never used more than that anyways, plus you could buy and external USB 3 drive
You dont have to pay for the game again, just log in.
My kinect is always connected anyways, no biggie.
PS4 is not backwards compatible either.

I suggest you go take a look at the Architecture stream that was on to show how the system will actually run.

-You have to use voice commands to go home.
-I have over 2TB of games on my PC HDD at home. They have not confirmed that you can use external HDDs
You do have to pay for the game again if you want to inssert it in to a new console.
Fair enough. What about people who do not want to use connect or there room is to small?
But it has good cloud storage where there will be a massive back catolog of PS2 and PS3 games.

Both are running x86 which is greating for porting games over from PC. :-)

---

This whole argument between you all is pathetic.
Let me tell you a few straight facts so you can stop saying false statements.

- You don't have to use the kinect voice to go home, it will work the same as before where you can still operate it by pressing a couple of buttons.

Source? i don't remember M$ saying that.

- You have 2TB games on PC. Unless you have torrented them, you are speaking out of your backside.

I will post a screenshot later of my games folder. At college atm.

Games on PC always take up much more space anyway, look at BF3 for example.. On PC that is about a 20GB game, look at consoles and it is less than 10GB. PC games are always more because there is so much more you do with them.

That was obviously because of console limitations of the last gen. This gen will not have them limiatoins so the size of the games will be roughly the same for exmaple max payne 3 on pc is 25gb i think.

- You do not have to pay for a game again to be able to play it somewhere else. Everything is operated by this "Cloud". Once you install the game on your XBox, it is recognised that you have the game so you will be able to play it anywhere you want as long as you are connected to XBL.

In my last post in just realised about that. Major Nelson is also holding a conferance later to clear up any speculation about the console

---

Let's talk about your so-called "cons".

Kinect must be connected and functioning at all times...

- Incorrect. Kinect must be connected and functioning to be able to use VOICE COMMANDS to turn it on. You can still use the power button if you find it that annoying.
You can still operate the system completely without kinect, it is only used for VOICE and GESTURES.

Why should i have to have a mandotory kinect plugged in at all times when it is not benifitiing me in anyway at all?

Buttons replaced etc.

- Yes, the Back and Start buttons have been replaced, and you think that this will be a disadvantage? It's not like they have completely removed the ability to pause a game etc. That's just complete stupidity. The home button has been removed because there is no longer a need for it. If the ability of the two new buttons are able to perform the same function, why keep it? Voice commands are not replacing everything, you can still operate the system as normal with a controller, like I said before.

Good point

Kinect 2.0

- I'm not even going to waste my time explaining an argument on why you think Kinect 2.0 is a con. This is absurd to even say so, everything about the Kinect 2.0 has improved and there is no hardware piece available for gamers or people that need a similar device anywhere. Especially when the Kinect 2.9 is able to track more joints then before, free your body to do what you want. Up to 6 people can use the Kinect at once, it recognises movement of different joins, as well as the rotation of said joints. The camera is able to work in any kind of light due to the standard camera as well as an IR camera to give complete vision of the player. Also, it recognises depth better than ever before.

Will just add price to the initial console

Kinect built in at the start

- I don't understand why if you could have something that enables you to do so much more with a machine, why it would be a con? You think that because everyone will have a kinect to begin with, it is somehow bad now? Of course Kinect will have more support, it is one of the major components that make the system function to its best use.

Will just add price to the initial console

Games cannot be taken to friends house bla bla

- Yes they can. Games are stored to your hard drive and are accessed via the cloud so you do not have to worry about anything like that. With the "you must sign in"... That's just common sense, if you were able to just give your games away, that would lose people money. So essentially with this point is that you are saying because you can't get free games, the console is awful.

What if you lend a game to a friend and you want to access your account from home?

Mandatory install

- This isn't a con at all. Installing games for one increases the speed at which the game can load, it allows the system to verify the game integrity which will in turn stop potential hackers as the game is read for verification before being able to be played.

So a MANDATORY installation is not a con. Yes the advantages are good but i should not HAVE to install the game. Second point is valid

No HDD upgrade

- It said Standard model is 500GB. If you want more than that, buy a different damn model! I'm sure there will be external support for other hard drives later on, they have already said you can use external USB drives. If you manage to fill your HDD, you are downloading or using memory on pointless things such as Demos that you no longer play, etc.

If there is an upgradable option then great, but i can see myself filling this up rather quickly. Good point on the external.

no backwards compatibility

Neither does the PS4 so don't get your knickers in a twist. Sony had said that they are using a 3rd party's software to bring the old arcade games forward, which will be a waste of time.. If you wanted to play them still, just turn on your PS3 for God's sake!

I was saying that the PS4 has a massive back catolog on it's streaming service which you mentioned about of PS2 and PS3 games.

Internet connection

This really is a pointless statement. Most households have internet, especially the ones that will be purchasing any next-gen console. The synchronisation of the system means that it will be able to be a more secure system, will be able to operate much faster and allow you to access all of your content as you require it.

How is this pointless. What if you live in a rural area, your connection goes down for a week or you go on holiday? It should not be mandotory for me to have to connect to the internet every 24 hours, it's just an inconvienience.

Debatable pros points

Moaning about 8GBs of RAM

- For starters, 8GB RAM is more than enough to do whatever you want the system to do, sure PS4 DDR5 RAM is better but 8GB DDR3 isn't a con for the system what-so-ever.

GDDR5 is still better in the long run.

processors

- So you are actually saying that upgrading the processors is a con? The 1.2 TF is a rumoured amount. They didn't actually confirm it was the final amount. Plus I'm sure that if they really wanted to, they could boost it up to whatever they needed it to be to be on par with PS4.

Ha, no I was not saying that at all i was just saying that the PS4 was a better processer better ram because it is GDDR5 and also a better GPU

Blu-ray

- This is a pro, blu ray allows more space to fit on a disc. Just because playstation already has it, doesn't mean it isn't a pro for XBox. By your logic here nearly everything that exists will be awful because something already has it.. The idea of improvement is that you take what is the best idea and use it; this is exactly what Microsoft have done here.

"This is already on the PS4 and a pro" section

Kinect 2.0

- You are repeating your pointless argument again.

See my post below

Kinect built in

- Again ^

This will just add price to the initial console. If they do a deal where it is JUST the console and not Kinect then that would be great.

better controller

- Of course it is to be expected. So what you are saying is that because you knew it was going to happen, it isn't a Pro? If you had actually taken the time to research a little more you'd realise how much the new controller improves the system.

That is why i said it is a debatable pro and i also agree with you on this

Multimedia

- Regardless of where it first appears, it is still a benefit for the system as a whole

Agreed

GS carries over

- You might not see it as a pro but many gamers play to be able to get their GS up, to achieve their goals and to show what they have accomplished. To have the hard-earned gamerscore carry across after spending countless hours and hundreds of reloading checkpoints to gain that extra achievement means a lot to some people. This is all a matter of opinion as to whether it is a pro.

Good point

Games play from HDD

- No the games aren't worth 'nothing'. It has already been confirmed that you can trade in and get a small reimbursement.

I'm talking about the physical disk. Once you activate it online you cannot trade the physical disk in and get a better reimbursement than you would with M$

Built in DVR

- Again, just because the PS4 has it, doesn't mean it isn't a pro! It is a good benefit for both machines. Regardless of who said "i had done it first", things are always going to be a great addition.

Should be in the "This is already on the PS4 and a pro" section.

Access content owned by others

- This is still a pro. It was available on the 360 anyway, the point they were making was that there were rumours saying only the account that had purchased game X would be able to access it. This was just dismissing rumours.

Maybe i should have had a list of "This is already on the PS4 and a pro" This would be part of my list.

reimburse bla bla

- Of course you are going to pay full price for the next game! Unless you are some cheap, little scavenger that lives off of illegal downloads and torrents, you will pay for your game. I don't know of anything that exists that says "here, come and take every game for free because you traded back in one.." This point is just moronic.

Second hand games?

Not always online - It should be anyway...

- You are contradicting yourself here. Your points earlier about the internet connection being required go against this completely.

I meant this should not have been a worry in the first place. Sorry for the confusion

/rant

I have posted my reponses in bold just below yours.

Fair points, I'm glad you weren't going to be one of the standard "all your points are wrong, shut up" responses.
We'll have to wait and see for definite answers to some of these points.

So, in conclusion, I'm sure we can both agree that:

1. Kinect as a "must-have" isn't beneficial for the people never intending to use it.
2. Xbox has taken a few ideas from what Sony have said about PS4 (Or already had the ideas/plans to do it but Sony revealed first)
3. The potential system may not be as good for people with low/no access to Internet


Finally a discussion that hasn't ended in "GTFO noob sftu no idea what you are talking about" - *insert more stereotypical CoD fanboy sayings*


Yup i agree with all of the three points that you have stated but some of the others I'm not so sure. :blush2:

And

another con you can use your tv and xbox to watch TV WOW

haloharry2k9 wrote another con you can use your tv and xbox to watch TV WOW

It's an additional feature.. You're seriously saying that an added feature is a con? Obviously a Sony fanboy.

Hindu wrote i like how you have to talk and use the kinect.

You don't have to, you can also use the controller:l

TTG is possibly the only place where Sony fanboys don't pollute the entire site, I get some peace here. I'm getting hyped for E3, can't wait for the release!

I'm not sure if this has been said but, as we know the friends list has a limit of 1000 people. Is their a search function?

Imagine scrolling through a list of 1000 people just to invite someone to a party.

Why do you say
Whether you think is better playstation 4
The trailer is not even out yet
What does it matter
Whether that is better or not
It comes to playing
Not who is better.

I don't mind Kinect having to be connected, I quite like that actually. I'll probably use it quite a lot for multi-tasking.