[quote="Motivational"]

SOOO many things wrong with this post, but beings that I assume you're from the UK, you're pretty uneducated on the matter.

Ok, in America, most of us live paycheck to paycheck. This means when our car breaks down we can't afford to fix it. That deer that I killed with my oh so bad gun, lets me put food on the table for my family for a week at minimum. This allows us to save money to get the car fixed.

I have no problem with someone killing for the purpose of survival, if it has to be between you and the deer then obviously your life is more valuable. But if you have a full-time job and you're killing on the side or for a sport, it's completely wrong in my eyes.

That's fine, if you want to hunt for wild animals with hunting weapons, like bolt action rifles then that's cool. There's no need for a semi-automatic rifle or even a pistol though. I honestly don't mind guns being legal so long as they're not ridiculous killing machines, which sadly most of them are.

Guns and drugs have literally nothing in common in this matter. Guns have a good side- that being self defense and the ability to aid me in putting food on the table. There is nothing good about having to shoot an innocent animal? Excuse me, you must not eat meat. Trust me, I used to work at a farm and the way we hunt animals is A LOT better than how we farm animals. It is a lot more humane but at the end of the day, an animal is dead. It's nature bud, animals kill animals and we as humans are also animals.

Firstly, you can put food on the table without guns. Humans have been doing it for the last 200,000 years. So that point is completely invalid, if anything you're superior to a caveman and should have no problem getting a crossbow or knife.

Secondly, guns are not self defence. I can say this time and time again, if someone wants to kill you specifically they will. Someone can stab you before you even knew they intended to cause you harm and a gun will do nothing to prevent that. Not to mention, why are you so afraid of dying? The chances of you using your gun are so damn slim, you will die, we will all die. There's no point carrying around something that's not going to save your life, the majority of people aren't even.

And drugs do have a good purpose, millions of people use anabolic steroids and they've gave them opportunities that they couldn't of had without them.

And lastly, I'm not a vegetarian. There's nothing good about having to shoot an animal though, the meat is just something that's gotten once it's dead and has nothing to do with the actual slaughtering of the animal. Sadly it's a part of nature and it is what it is, I don't hold that against you.

That gun is also used by the bad people, but the bad people are also not law abiding citizens. By taking away guns, you disarm the good people so that gives free reign to the bad people. It takes less than a second to get your gun. All the while you should be backing up and putting as much space between you and them as possible. Also, you don't "take off" a safety. It is a little lever you push 5/8" forward which is extremely easy to do. "Nobody is going to shoot someone that they love, even if their life is in danger. " B.S. I guarantee you that there will be no more love after that person rapes them. The idea that "oh I love you so I won't stop you raping me" is asinine, it is simply not a fact.

Are you joking or serious? Taking off the safety is easy obviously but in a state of panic, you're not going to be doing things methodologically, most woman are extremely inexperienced with guns and don't know how to use them and they'll forget this kind of thing and panic.

The second point is just stupid. As I said, most people who are raped are with someone they love, who the hell keeps a loaded weapon in their bed or bathroom? What rapist husband would allow their wife to even have a gun? I guarantee that you would find it impossible to shoot a member of your family no matter what the situation was. Now imagine you're a terrified woman who has loved this man all your life, not to mention. Good luck proving in court that they raped you and you shot them? Do you know how hard to would be to prove that? Most woman wouldn't shoot because of the fear of not being believed and imprisonment.

Pepper spray will do a lot when the rapist is weilding a gun, right? Let me refresh you on how long it takes. It takes the same amount of time to take pepper spray out of your bag as it does a gun. Pepper spray is often a round can so you have to think which way your aiming it and you might even spray yourself. Let's just forget about the fact that some of them use a pin you have to remove so it doesn't spray in your bag. A gun takes less time to deploy and is more effective in the situation. Often times if you show a gun, that person is going to run.

Pepper spray is far smaller and lighter than a gun and it can be carried in your pocket. I guarantee you that it's faster to take out pepper spray than an actual gun. As for the pin and stuff, buy a better model of pepper spray.

As I said, 9/10 rapes happen with familiar people. You're not going to shoot someone you love because no court is going to believe that your husband of twenty years wanted to rape you and you shot him. It's that simple, we call that murder and I guarantee that millions of people have been jailed when they were actually just trying to defend themselves. It's far more believable and easier to hide under a pillow when you have pepper spray.

It's extremely easy to convert a semi-auto to a fully auto? Tell me, how do you do it? You know how easy it is, let me know. I'll let you know, it's not that easy, in fact it's fairly difficult. An example here, on an AR-15 you have the upper and lower receivers. You are pretty much replacing most of the parts in the lower to make it a full auto instead of a semi-auto. Also, that gun used in the Orlando shooting was a semi-auto. Let me give you a refresher on what semi and full auto mean as I don't think you understand it. When I say that I'm referring to this comment " Especially considering the crazy amount of people that he injured and killed and how educated and experienced he was with weapons." A fully auto firearm is one that you hold down the trigger and it will empty the clip, usually in less than 3 seconds (about 10 rounds per second). This is the illegal one and would not be effective in this scenario. The one that was used was semi-auto. This is where you press the trigger once and a bullet fires. Every time you press the trigger, a bullet fires. When it does, the gas used to propel the bullet is also used to work the action, taking out the spent round, putting another one in, and cocking the action ready to fire again.

If you've got a degree in criminal-justice technology which is basically analysing crime scenes like the guy who died the shooting did, I'm pretty sure you can convert a weapon from semi automatic to automatic. And obviously I know the difference, how the hell would that not have been more effective though? He could easily have made a drum sized magazine and fired in bursts of 3-5 and far more people would have died. He obviously didn't really think the whole shooting through but it would definitely be more effective to have the option to switch to automatic if needed.

Who said everyone was "extremely intoxicated"? The people serving the alcohol are not supposed to be intoxicated, and a lot of people go to bars just for the atmosphere.

I'm making an estimated guess, for every twenty or so people at the club, there was probably one staff member. There is obviously going to be more people drinking alcohol than those who don't.

It doesn't matter if one guy is trained, the other 10 should've been armed and been able to take him out. Do you know why the police had a hard time taking him out? As you said, this guy was smart. He knew the right place where he could open fire on the people he wanted to kill, yet stay fairly safe from the people who wanted to kill him.

Well, since this is about gun laws in general and isn't specifically centred towards the recent attack,

Do you remember the Aurora shooting? The batman movie one?

Around 12:30 am, he reentered the theatre through the exit door. He was dressed in black and wore a gas mask, a load-bearing vest, a ballistic helmet, bullet-resistant leggings, a bullet-resistant throat protector, a groin protector, and tactical gloves.

How is a 9mm handgun going to do anything when you're surrounded by gas, it's extremely dark and the person shooting you is in bullet-proof gear? 50 cent got shot nine times with a 9mm pistol at point blank range and was able to survive.

WRONG, although it is easy to get a gun, if you can't pass a background check, you won't get it. Might I also add that they are expensive? Yes, a lot of people who do these shootings get them legally, but you don't walk up to "the government" and ask nicely with puppy eyes to get a gun, it doesn't work like that. This further shows you lack of education on the matter. The way you actually get a gun is you walk into a gun dealer (Cabelas, Walmart, Remmington, etc.), look at a gun, say you want to buy it, you answer a series of questions while they run a back ground check, if everything passes you give them your money and you walk out with the gun.

It's slightly different in the UK, we have to actually apply to the police and government but it's completely irrelevant. Either way, your government lets you buy pretty much any gun you want. All I'm suggesting you do is limit it the way it's done in the UK. No handguns and only sporting weapons, that way you can hunt and shoot and can't commit a massacre.

A knife is not a killing machine, just like a gun is not a killing machine. They are both tools.

Tool - a device or implement, especially one held in the hand, used to carry out a particular function.

Obviously they're both tools. An AK-47 is a gun and and also assault rifle. It's two things.

No, a gun is used to kill. It has no other purposes. If it's target practice, what are you practising your aim for? To shoot either animals or humans. A knife is actually used by other people. Everyone I know uses a knife, I know only two people who have guns. There's a pretty large difference.

A gun can be used just for fun at the range, in fact that's why I bought my AK. A gun has MULTIPLE purposes, and I'm tired of bringing this up to you. It is meant to put meat on the table, it is meant for self defense, it is meant for recreational activities at the range, etc. A knife and a gun both have many uses, both have good uses and both have bad uses.

You still don't see the obvious. The whole reason of training on the range is to increase your aim, thus making you more efficient with the gun. By putting meat on the table, you're still killing an animal and it's a terrible act. But whatever, it's life. Unless you can make a sandwich with a gun, or cut a rope using it, then it hasn't got many good uses. It has one got use at most which is target practice and I don't even agree with that.

A knife absolutely can kill large amount of people. What about the 29 dead, 140 injured at the China Kunming train station?? What about the 8 dead and 15 injured at the Osaka school? Nanping school? the list goes on and on. Knives can kill and injure mass amounts of people.

You're just being stupid now. Of course it can be used to kill lots of people, what I meant was it hasn't happened so far in the UK and it probably wont happen. I could kill a school of small children with my bare hands, I'm obviously not going to say that they're lethal weapons though.

You're listing countries where it's legal to carry around 16 inch knives, I'm talking about the UK here. Not countries with populations of 2 billion people.

Both male and female attackers pulled out long-bladed knives and stabbed and slashed passengers

"If someone gets stabbed in the UK, it's normally either to do with a drug-related crime or a robbery." Kind of like guns in the US? Out of 32k deaths, 20k are suicide and 2k are gang related? Weird how that works out. "Nobody has ever killed a school of children in the UK with a knife" There have been attempts, Blakenhall, Wolverhampton, England, United Kingdom? A guy slashed 3 children and 4 adults at the St Luke's Primary School

It's nothing like the US. Two days ago somebody shot up a club full of innocent people, that doesn't happen with the UK. A school full of children obviously means a large amount. Like the amount that are killed in an American school shooting. Not two or three.

You are acting like if there is a law saying guns are illegal that everyone will hand in their guns. It's simply not the case, it will never happen. There are too many guns out there so to think that the criminals who own guns will wilfully give them up is just a stupid idea. If we make guns illegal, I will become a criminal because I will not give up my guns.

I don't think that it will but if it even helps prevent something like this not happening again then it will be worth it. Anything is worth a try at this point. As I said, I've got nothing wrong with old fashioned and very basic one shot weapons but when you start getting semi automatic and fully automatic stuff then it's too far in my opinion.

There are MANY people who survive being shot. Hell, look at the Orlando shooting, 53 people were injured and came out alive.

And most of them have lost friends, scarred for life, wont be able to walk and will seek medical assistance for the rest of their lives.

Don't compare the amount of damage that a gun causes to that of a knife. Seriously.

You're missing my point. My point is that even in a "perfect" world where let's say guns are illegal and it's just as hard to get one in the US as in the UK, these murders would still be happening, it would just be with other means. Knives, or even tannerite bought at Walmart.

That's simply not the case. People do things when the opportunity presents itself. If there's a gun lying there, there's more chance of you using it than if it isn't. Nobody could kill fifty people with a knife. People have tried that in the UK and it doesn't work.

At this point, I can't feel my fingers or my hand. I'm in pure agony. For that purpose alone I guess we should agree to disagree, however I will still reply if you want to continue.

Long story short, knives are less dangerous than guns and if people want to hurt each other they should use actually fair weapons.

@Motivational It's not as hard as you may think to get a gun here in the UK.

I know but we're heavily restricted and we can't even buy handguns let alone semi automatic assault rifles and sub machine guns.