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#21. Posted:
Stonerzard
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Rias wrote You are trying your damned hardest to prove a point on the internet.

Heck even Hearthstone is more popular on Twitch, Dota is just boring to watch if you don't know what's going on.


Am I? Or am I having a discussion on why one is more popular TO PLAY than the other. Read my post properly. I've not asked why people whom watch it without no prior knowledge of the game do not play it but rather why is the fanbase so much bigger seeing as in the view of the average gamer Dota 2 is more valuable to play.

I didn't know the answer to a question that I thought of so I thought I'd create a discussion to find out that answer. Too many people on here already think I'm trying to spark arguments.
#22. Posted:
Rias
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Stonerzard wrote
Rias wrote You are trying your damned hardest to prove a point on the internet.

Heck even Hearthstone is more popular on Twitch, Dota is just boring to watch if you don't know what's going on.


Am I? Or am I having a discussion on why one is more popular TO PLAY than the other. Read my post properly. I've not asked why people whom watch it without no prior knowledge of the game do not play it but rather why is the fanbase so much bigger seeing as in the view of the average gamer Dota 2 is more valuable to play.

I didn't know the answer to a question that I thought of so I thought I'd create a discussion to find out that answer. Too many people on here already think I'm trying to spark arguments.

You keep trying to say League is P2W, but it isn't.

Here is a good post someone made about why League isn't P2W, it's kinda long but gets the point across.
Everyone else has basically covered what I was going to say... Pre-30 you're still learning the game, there are 10 free champions each rotation for you to learn as well as a bunch of 450/1350 IP champions which you will need to familiarize yourself with... The learning curve of LoL is massive at the moment and although it is slowing down due to champions being released less frequently, it is still growing over time... New players will have a more and more difficult time learning this game because new champions are being released... So in terms of gaining knowledge about the game and actively learning a role or champion I would be of the opinion that as a new player LoL is not Pay to Win..
It takes a long time to master a champion or even become semi-familiar with a champion... There are enough free champions and champion match-up variations in this game that you could easily get to level 30 and still not know everything about each champion and how they interact with each other.. In a game you're controlling 1 champion while there are 9 other champions on the field which you need to know how to interact with... As a new player your learning experience will not be altered by having access to more champions but rather you will be better off if other people have more champions...
If you play only Ashe and interact with 100 different champions, you'll be better off than if you play Ashe + Jinx and only interact with 50 champions... There are over 500 abilities in the game to learn, you can do that quicker if you stick to a smaller roster and focus on what other players are doing around you... I don't need to own Jinx to know what she does, there is enough information out there that I can use to familiarize myself with that champion... If I stick with Ashe and face Jinx a few times I will learn how her abilities work and what I need to do when facing her... Whereas if I purchased Jinx suddenly I need to learn everything from scratch and learn all of the match-ups again...
I agree that buying champions can help you along the way, some people find it easier to learn the game by doing as opposed to watching... But at the end of the day I don't believe that buying a bunch of 6300 IP champions will give you a significant edge if you're learning the game...
How long does it take to save up 6300 IP? A few days maybe? Could you honestly tell me that you are able to master a champion within a few days/games and move on to the next one that fast? If I buy a champion, I use that champion (If I am able to secure that role) until I have gained well over 6300 IP and learnt the champion to a decent standard...
League of Legends is pay for convenience... If you spend money on League of Legends you might enjoy yourself more because you're able to use more champions... But over-all there are such a small amount of 'hard counters' that I believe League of Legends is not pay-to-win at any skill level unless you've made a smurf and you already have sufficient game knowledge (AKA owning and learning the majority of champions on your main account) and even then I'm sure that you could learn more from the 10 champion rotation and cheap champions...
How many people here have mastered Poppy? How many people here own Poppy? Chances are you haven't mastered this champion or even played this champion in the last 200 games... But if you only own 20 champions and one of them is Poppy then you would have a huge advantage as Poppy, you would have the element of surprise on your side, you would have the knowledge and the experience of playing against 100 Jax players and 200 Renektons you would know how to treat that match up and gain an upper-hand... They wouldn't even a clue how to play against you... So if you learn how to master your small pool of champions you have an upper hand...
LoL is not pay-to-win
/End Rant

-TreeBurrow


"I fear the Master of One, but not the Master of None."

basically saying, I fear the player who owns only one champion but has mastered that champion rather than the player who has all the champions and has mastered none.

It doesn't matter how many Champions you have if you have no idea how to use any of them.
#23. Posted:
C-17
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Simply because I couldn't lock my camera on DOTA and it looked so much more confusing to league which is what turned me off.
#24. Posted:
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Stonerzard wrote
Rias wrote You are trying your damned hardest to prove a point on the internet.

Heck even Hearthstone is more popular on Twitch, Dota is just boring to watch if you don't know what's going on.


Am I? Or am I having a discussion on why one is more popular TO PLAY than the other. Read my post properly. I've not asked why people whom watch it without no prior knowledge of the game do not play it but rather why is the fanbase so much bigger seeing as in the view of the average gamer Dota 2 is more valuable to play.

I didn't know the answer to a question that I thought of so I thought I'd create a discussion to find out that answer. Too many people on here already think I'm trying to spark arguments.


Which average gamer says Doto is more valuable to play ?
If you're talking about payouts for winning then that's because the tourney's were crowd funded and pretty stupid. League's allowing players to have career's, create an image for themselves, build a fan base.

League has more interaction LCS, Fantasy LCS, Music Videos and more

I think it all boils down to which is most fun, which I'd say league is more fun because it's simple you can spam abilities in Doto you have to watch your mana, also the fact that you can deny creeps is probably gonna put the beginners off playing.

Why? Because I can
#25. Posted:
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at the end of the day, having more champions is a straight advantage. You can use the argument "it doesn't matter because you still don't know much about the game/your still learning/you can unlock all the champions after playing for a while" is just down right stupid. You could use that logic for every pay to win game. They whole point of a pay to win game is paying to skip play time for unlocks. I am sure there are some champions in league that are the best champions of that specific patch and I know for a fact that not all of those champions will be in the free rotation.

If you have two people who are the exact same skill level and one of those has a objectively better champion because they bought it with real money and the other one doesn't have that champion and is stuck with an objectively worse champion then the other player has paid for an advantage.

I get it that you are defending the game you play, but at the end of the day it has pay to win elements. It is FAR from the worst model and for pay to win its actually one of the better ones but it is still play to win.

If it were a game you didn't play and it had the same model undoubtedly you would say its pay to win.
#26. Posted:
Schoey
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ThisIsABadName wrote at the end of the day, having more champions is a straight advantage. You can use the argument "it doesn't matter because you still don't know much about the game/your still learning/you can unlock all the champions after playing for a while" is just down right stupid. You could use that logic for every pay to win game. They whole point of a pay to win game is paying to skip play time for unlocks. I am sure there are some champions in league that are the best champions of that specific patch and I know for a fact that not all of those champions will be in the free rotation.

If you have two people who are the exact same skill level and one of those has a objectively better champion because they bought it with real money and the other one doesn't have that champion and is stuck with an objectively worse champion then the other player has paid for an advantage.

I get it that you are defending the game you play, but at the end of the day it has pay to win elements. It is FAR from the worst model and for pay to win its actually one of the better ones but it is still play to win.

If it were a game you didn't play and it had the same model undoubtedly you would say its pay to win.


Except the price of a champion doesn't mean the champion will be better, Annie can dumpster anyone and she costs 450 IP (Like 3 games) Most champions are balanced but as new items are added and the meta shifts some champions look more OP just ban them in champ select.
#27. Posted:
Uptown
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I actually play both! However, I play way more casually on LoL just simply because I feel League is just easier in a way, from the layout to the game mechanics. Now, I am not saying League can be difficult but it just has certain feel with me. Same goes for Dota 2, I feel that I have to play super competitive when I play the game. This two ideas may be completely switched for other players ,but this is just my perspective.
#28. Posted:
vWatsonc
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I got into league pretty easy because it was simple and easy to look at but i tried out dota 2 a while ago and i found it alot harder to get the hang of and it had a dark look to it aswell.
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