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Looking for a new case
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Looking for a new casePosted:

xJonnnnY
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I need a new case as I don't like the one I have currently the cooler master N200

Budget would be around £60 - 70 the less the better, must have plenty of space and cable management and have decent cooling

Oh and I have a GTX 1080 so must be big enough for that of course


Thanks
#2. Posted:
TaigaAisaka
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What motherboard and PSU do you currently have? Do you also have an AIO or liquid cooling?

Motherboard and PSU is important too as we need to make sure the case has the proper standoffs for your motherboard. PSU falls in line with making sure cables can reach your motherboard after being installed into the case and doing your cable management. Nothing worse than getting a case and finding out your PSU cables don't reach anymore and now you need to get an extender lol. If you have an AIO or liquid cooling, knowing the radiator size and if it was on top or in the front will help in making sure either of those will support the rad.
#3. Posted:
xJonnnnY
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TaigaAisaka wrote What motherboard and PSU do you currently have? Do you also have an AIO or liquid cooling?

Motherboard and PSU is important too as we need to make sure the case has the proper standoffs for your motherboard. PSU falls in line with making sure cables can reach your motherboard after being installed into the case and doing your cable management. Nothing worse than getting a case and finding out your PSU cables don't reach anymore and now you need to get an extender lol. If you have an AIO or liquid cooling, knowing the radiator size and if it was on top or in the front will help in making sure either of those will support the rad.


I have the B150 mortar and the evga 650 G2 as for the cooler it is just the stock cooler as I will be upgrading that in the future, so far my CPU temps haven't reached above 60C
#4. Posted:
TaigaAisaka
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xJonnnnY wrote
TaigaAisaka wrote What motherboard and PSU do you currently have? Do you also have an AIO or liquid cooling?

Motherboard and PSU is important too as we need to make sure the case has the proper standoffs for your motherboard. PSU falls in line with making sure cables can reach your motherboard after being installed into the case and doing your cable management. Nothing worse than getting a case and finding out your PSU cables don't reach anymore and now you need to get an extender lol. If you have an AIO or liquid cooling, knowing the radiator size and if it was on top or in the front will help in making sure either of those will support the rad.


I have the B150 mortar and the evga 650 G2 as for the cooler it is just the stock cooler as I will be upgrading that in the future, so far my CPU temps haven't reached above 60C


If you don't have a DVD player/reader or any other component that would take an optical drive bay, I would probably opt for the Phanteks Eclipse P400. Mid tower case with a side panel that has a window. Magnetic dust filter on the top of the case. PSU shroud to make things look a little neater. Has enough room for cable management and fans (water cooling this case would be easy.) Looks to support 3 fans in the front - 2 if they are 140mm, 2 140mm on the top and 1 140mm on the back. Has a colour LED at the bottom of the case too if that's an interest. With the hardware you mentioned, it does say that some drive bays may be inaccessible due to the 1080's length; however, it doesn't even have an optical drive bay mount and it has 2 SSD and 2 HDD mounts behind the motherboard tray.



[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]




If you have an optical drive that you need to bring over, I would suggest the Phanteks Enthoo Pro M. Has pretty much the same thing as the P400, however no LED light on the bottom, the IO panel might be in an awkward position (in the front of the case to the side) and one SSD mount on the back of the motherboard tray instead of 2. Other than that, plenty of room for cable management, PSU shroud, magnetic dust filter on the top, HDD bays behind the motherboard tray as well as mountable HDD trays inside near the front. Looks to support 2 140mm fans on the top and front with 1 140mm in the back.

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]




The only other suggestion I would have if you don't need a case that supports an optical drive would be the NZXT S340, just personally, I don't like the S340 case. It seems way too bare inside the case when compared to other cases (really reminds me of the Corsair 750D in that sense) and I absolutely HATE what they did with the back of the motherboard tray. On paper, it seems good to try and help cable management by tucking all the access cables into it's own little hide-away shroud, but it looks really sloppy if you don't throw everything in there. Another problem with this is any right angled SATA connectors start to have an awkward bend once being tied to other cables back there that I personally wouldn't want at all. On top of that, if your cables are running a little short, you may have to mess up the cable management to make them reach their components, which might barely be enough and now there is a tension on the cable and connector. I'm sure there's a way to get them not to bend and negate any tension if any from a cable barely making it, but I would rather do cable management properly, instead of relying on a shroud meant to tuck and hide them away.
#5. Posted:
xJonnnnY
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TaigaAisaka wrote
xJonnnnY wrote
TaigaAisaka wrote What motherboard and PSU do you currently have? Do you also have an AIO or liquid cooling?

Motherboard and PSU is important too as we need to make sure the case has the proper standoffs for your motherboard. PSU falls in line with making sure cables can reach your motherboard after being installed into the case and doing your cable management. Nothing worse than getting a case and finding out your PSU cables don't reach anymore and now you need to get an extender lol. If you have an AIO or liquid cooling, knowing the radiator size and if it was on top or in the front will help in making sure either of those will support the rad.


I have the B150 mortar and the evga 650 G2 as for the cooler it is just the stock cooler as I will be upgrading that in the future, so far my CPU temps haven't reached above 60C


If you don't have a DVD player/reader or any other component that would take an optical drive bay, I would probably opt for the Phanteks Eclipse P400. Mid tower case with a side panel that has a window. Magnetic dust filter on the top of the case. PSU shroud to make things look a little neater. Has enough room for cable management and fans (water cooling this case would be easy.) Looks to support 3 fans in the front - 2 if they are 140mm, 2 140mm on the top and 1 140mm on the back. Has a colour LED at the bottom of the case too if that's an interest. With the hardware you mentioned, it does say that some drive bays may be inaccessible due to the 1080's length; however, it doesn't even have an optical drive bay mount and it has 2 SSD and 2 HDD mounts behind the motherboard tray.



[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]




If you have an optical drive that you need to bring over, I would suggest the Phanteks Enthoo Pro M. Has pretty much the same thing as the P400, however no LED light on the bottom, the IO panel might be in an awkward position (in the front of the case to the side) and one SSD mount on the back of the motherboard tray instead of 2. Other than that, plenty of room for cable management, PSU shroud, magnetic dust filter on the top, HDD bays behind the motherboard tray as well as mountable HDD trays inside near the front. Looks to support 2 140mm fans on the top and front with 1 140mm in the back.

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]




The only other suggestion I would have if you don't need a case that supports an optical drive would be the NZXT S340, just personally, I don't like the S340 case. It seems way too bare inside the case when compared to other cases (really reminds me of the Corsair 750D in that sense) and I absolutely HATE what they did with the back of the motherboard tray. On paper, it seems good to try and help cable management by tucking all the access cables into it's own little hide-away shroud, but it looks really sloppy if you don't throw everything in there. Another problem with this is any right angled SATA connectors start to have an awkward bend once being tied to other cables back there that I personally wouldn't want at all. On top of that, if your cables are running a little short, you may have to mess up the cable management to make them reach their components, which might barely be enough and now there is a tension on the cable and connector. I'm sure there's a way to get them not to bend and negate any tension if any from a cable barely making it, but I would rather do cable management properly, instead of relying on a shroud meant to tuck and hide them away.


Yeah I think I'll go with the P400 thanks could you recommend some case fans as well if that alright ? And maybe a CPU cooler I can get later this year?
#6. Posted:
TaigaAisaka
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xJonnnnY wrote
TaigaAisaka wrote
xJonnnnY wrote
TaigaAisaka wrote What motherboard and PSU do you currently have? Do you also have an AIO or liquid cooling?

Motherboard and PSU is important too as we need to make sure the case has the proper standoffs for your motherboard. PSU falls in line with making sure cables can reach your motherboard after being installed into the case and doing your cable management. Nothing worse than getting a case and finding out your PSU cables don't reach anymore and now you need to get an extender lol. If you have an AIO or liquid cooling, knowing the radiator size and if it was on top or in the front will help in making sure either of those will support the rad.


I have the B150 mortar and the evga 650 G2 as for the cooler it is just the stock cooler as I will be upgrading that in the future, so far my CPU temps haven't reached above 60C


If you don't have a DVD player/reader or any other component that would take an optical drive bay, I would probably opt for the Phanteks Eclipse P400. Mid tower case with a side panel that has a window. Magnetic dust filter on the top of the case. PSU shroud to make things look a little neater. Has enough room for cable management and fans (water cooling this case would be easy.) Looks to support 3 fans in the front - 2 if they are 140mm, 2 140mm on the top and 1 140mm on the back. Has a colour LED at the bottom of the case too if that's an interest. With the hardware you mentioned, it does say that some drive bays may be inaccessible due to the 1080's length; however, it doesn't even have an optical drive bay mount and it has 2 SSD and 2 HDD mounts behind the motherboard tray.



[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]




If you have an optical drive that you need to bring over, I would suggest the Phanteks Enthoo Pro M. Has pretty much the same thing as the P400, however no LED light on the bottom, the IO panel might be in an awkward position (in the front of the case to the side) and one SSD mount on the back of the motherboard tray instead of 2. Other than that, plenty of room for cable management, PSU shroud, magnetic dust filter on the top, HDD bays behind the motherboard tray as well as mountable HDD trays inside near the front. Looks to support 2 140mm fans on the top and front with 1 140mm in the back.

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]




The only other suggestion I would have if you don't need a case that supports an optical drive would be the NZXT S340, just personally, I don't like the S340 case. It seems way too bare inside the case when compared to other cases (really reminds me of the Corsair 750D in that sense) and I absolutely HATE what they did with the back of the motherboard tray. On paper, it seems good to try and help cable management by tucking all the access cables into it's own little hide-away shroud, but it looks really sloppy if you don't throw everything in there. Another problem with this is any right angled SATA connectors start to have an awkward bend once being tied to other cables back there that I personally wouldn't want at all. On top of that, if your cables are running a little short, you may have to mess up the cable management to make them reach their components, which might barely be enough and now there is a tension on the cable and connector. I'm sure there's a way to get them not to bend and negate any tension if any from a cable barely making it, but I would rather do cable management properly, instead of relying on a shroud meant to tuck and hide them away.


Yeah I think I'll go with the P400 thanks could you recommend some case fans as well if that alright ? And maybe a CPU cooler I can get later this year?


I've been using the Venturi fans for quite a while now and absolutely love them. They are a little pricey for just one fan however.

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

If that is getting too expensive for just one fan, Be Quiet! fans are also a great choice.

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

Both of those fans are 140mm. I believe your case comes with two fans as is, so you could either buy a total of 5 140mm fans and replace the ones your case comes with or get 3 fans and leave the two that come with your case. ALSO as a note, your motherboard does not have enough fan headers for all those fans. You will need to buy a fan hub. As for CPU cooler, what budget are you working with for that? Depending on the budget you can get an All In One cooler, which is a water cooled CPU (don't worry, you don't have to fill it with water or shape the tubing) or of course an aftermarket air cooler.
#7. Posted:
xJonnnnY
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TaigaAisaka wrote
xJonnnnY wrote
TaigaAisaka wrote
xJonnnnY wrote
TaigaAisaka wrote What motherboard and PSU do you currently have? Do you also have an AIO or liquid cooling?

Motherboard and PSU is important too as we need to make sure the case has the proper standoffs for your motherboard. PSU falls in line with making sure cables can reach your motherboard after being installed into the case and doing your cable management. Nothing worse than getting a case and finding out your PSU cables don't reach anymore and now you need to get an extender lol. If you have an AIO or liquid cooling, knowing the radiator size and if it was on top or in the front will help in making sure either of those will support the rad.


I have the B150 mortar and the evga 650 G2 as for the cooler it is just the stock cooler as I will be upgrading that in the future, so far my CPU temps haven't reached above 60C


If you don't have a DVD player/reader or any other component that would take an optical drive bay, I would probably opt for the Phanteks Eclipse P400. Mid tower case with a side panel that has a window. Magnetic dust filter on the top of the case. PSU shroud to make things look a little neater. Has enough room for cable management and fans (water cooling this case would be easy.) Looks to support 3 fans in the front - 2 if they are 140mm, 2 140mm on the top and 1 140mm on the back. Has a colour LED at the bottom of the case too if that's an interest. With the hardware you mentioned, it does say that some drive bays may be inaccessible due to the 1080's length; however, it doesn't even have an optical drive bay mount and it has 2 SSD and 2 HDD mounts behind the motherboard tray.



[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]




If you have an optical drive that you need to bring over, I would suggest the Phanteks Enthoo Pro M. Has pretty much the same thing as the P400, however no LED light on the bottom, the IO panel might be in an awkward position (in the front of the case to the side) and one SSD mount on the back of the motherboard tray instead of 2. Other than that, plenty of room for cable management, PSU shroud, magnetic dust filter on the top, HDD bays behind the motherboard tray as well as mountable HDD trays inside near the front. Looks to support 2 140mm fans on the top and front with 1 140mm in the back.

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]




The only other suggestion I would have if you don't need a case that supports an optical drive would be the NZXT S340, just personally, I don't like the S340 case. It seems way too bare inside the case when compared to other cases (really reminds me of the Corsair 750D in that sense) and I absolutely HATE what they did with the back of the motherboard tray. On paper, it seems good to try and help cable management by tucking all the access cables into it's own little hide-away shroud, but it looks really sloppy if you don't throw everything in there. Another problem with this is any right angled SATA connectors start to have an awkward bend once being tied to other cables back there that I personally wouldn't want at all. On top of that, if your cables are running a little short, you may have to mess up the cable management to make them reach their components, which might barely be enough and now there is a tension on the cable and connector. I'm sure there's a way to get them not to bend and negate any tension if any from a cable barely making it, but I would rather do cable management properly, instead of relying on a shroud meant to tuck and hide them away.


Yeah I think I'll go with the P400 thanks could you recommend some case fans as well if that alright ? And maybe a CPU cooler I can get later this year?


I've been using the Venturi fans for quite a while now and absolutely love them. They are a little pricey for just one fan however.

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

If that is getting too expensive for just one fan, Be Quiet! fans are also a great choice.

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

Both of those fans are 140mm. I believe your case comes with two fans as is, so you could either buy a total of 5 140mm fans and replace the ones your case comes with or get 3 fans and leave the two that come with your case. ALSO as a note, your motherboard does not have enough fan headers for all those fans. You will need to buy a fan hub. As for CPU cooler, what budget are you working with for that? Depending on the budget you can get an All In One cooler, which is a water cooled CPU (don't worry, you don't have to fill it with water or shape the tubing) or of course an aftermarket air cooler.


Yeah I'll probably go for the Venturi fans and I'll have a look at a fan hub, as for the CPU cooler probably around £70-80 thanks
#8. Posted:
TaigaAisaka
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xJonnnnY wrote
TaigaAisaka wrote
xJonnnnY wrote
TaigaAisaka wrote
xJonnnnY wrote
TaigaAisaka wrote What motherboard and PSU do you currently have? Do you also have an AIO or liquid cooling?

Motherboard and PSU is important too as we need to make sure the case has the proper standoffs for your motherboard. PSU falls in line with making sure cables can reach your motherboard after being installed into the case and doing your cable management. Nothing worse than getting a case and finding out your PSU cables don't reach anymore and now you need to get an extender lol. If you have an AIO or liquid cooling, knowing the radiator size and if it was on top or in the front will help in making sure either of those will support the rad.


I have the B150 mortar and the evga 650 G2 as for the cooler it is just the stock cooler as I will be upgrading that in the future, so far my CPU temps haven't reached above 60C


If you don't have a DVD player/reader or any other component that would take an optical drive bay, I would probably opt for the Phanteks Eclipse P400. Mid tower case with a side panel that has a window. Magnetic dust filter on the top of the case. PSU shroud to make things look a little neater. Has enough room for cable management and fans (water cooling this case would be easy.) Looks to support 3 fans in the front - 2 if they are 140mm, 2 140mm on the top and 1 140mm on the back. Has a colour LED at the bottom of the case too if that's an interest. With the hardware you mentioned, it does say that some drive bays may be inaccessible due to the 1080's length; however, it doesn't even have an optical drive bay mount and it has 2 SSD and 2 HDD mounts behind the motherboard tray.



[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]




If you have an optical drive that you need to bring over, I would suggest the Phanteks Enthoo Pro M. Has pretty much the same thing as the P400, however no LED light on the bottom, the IO panel might be in an awkward position (in the front of the case to the side) and one SSD mount on the back of the motherboard tray instead of 2. Other than that, plenty of room for cable management, PSU shroud, magnetic dust filter on the top, HDD bays behind the motherboard tray as well as mountable HDD trays inside near the front. Looks to support 2 140mm fans on the top and front with 1 140mm in the back.

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]




The only other suggestion I would have if you don't need a case that supports an optical drive would be the NZXT S340, just personally, I don't like the S340 case. It seems way too bare inside the case when compared to other cases (really reminds me of the Corsair 750D in that sense) and I absolutely HATE what they did with the back of the motherboard tray. On paper, it seems good to try and help cable management by tucking all the access cables into it's own little hide-away shroud, but it looks really sloppy if you don't throw everything in there. Another problem with this is any right angled SATA connectors start to have an awkward bend once being tied to other cables back there that I personally wouldn't want at all. On top of that, if your cables are running a little short, you may have to mess up the cable management to make them reach their components, which might barely be enough and now there is a tension on the cable and connector. I'm sure there's a way to get them not to bend and negate any tension if any from a cable barely making it, but I would rather do cable management properly, instead of relying on a shroud meant to tuck and hide them away.


Yeah I think I'll go with the P400 thanks could you recommend some case fans as well if that alright ? And maybe a CPU cooler I can get later this year?


I've been using the Venturi fans for quite a while now and absolutely love them. They are a little pricey for just one fan however.

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

If that is getting too expensive for just one fan, Be Quiet! fans are also a great choice.

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

Both of those fans are 140mm. I believe your case comes with two fans as is, so you could either buy a total of 5 140mm fans and replace the ones your case comes with or get 3 fans and leave the two that come with your case. ALSO as a note, your motherboard does not have enough fan headers for all those fans. You will need to buy a fan hub. As for CPU cooler, what budget are you working with for that? Depending on the budget you can get an All In One cooler, which is a water cooled CPU (don't worry, you don't have to fill it with water or shape the tubing) or of course an aftermarket air cooler.


Yeah I'll probably go for the Venturi fans and I'll have a look at a fan hub, as for the CPU cooler probably around £70-80 thanks


My mistake as I forgot to ask, what CPU do you have? lol

Edit: While waiting on your CPU, since it's within budget, I would personally go with the Kelvin AIO.

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

It is a triple radiator, so it's going to be mounted in the front of the case. Always wanted a Kelvin, but they're apparently not sold in the US. One thing to think about though since it is going in the front of the case, the tubing may look a little "tacky" as it will be going along the path of the GPU. It shouldn't be touching the GPU at all, but if you want a dual-radiator AIO that can be mounted to the top of the case, there is a few within budget.

You can also get air options that will still cool your CPU down no problem all while at a cheaper price.

be quiet! Pure Rock Slim
be quiet! Dark Rock 3
(maybe) CRYORIG M9i

I say maybe on the CRYORIG M9i, simply because on Reddit people seem to be split in half when someone puts that on their build list. I can't get a concrete answer or reason as to why, so I'm just going to guess it's simply off the fact that there are better CPU coolers in that price range.


i5-6500 will work with all of these coolers.


Last edited by TaigaAisaka ; edited 1 time in total
#9. Posted:
xJonnnnY
  • Wise One
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Joined: Jul 10, 201112Year Member
Posts: 584
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Joined: Jul 10, 201112Year Member
Posts: 584
Reputation Power: 27
TaigaAisaka wrote
xJonnnnY wrote
TaigaAisaka wrote
xJonnnnY wrote
TaigaAisaka wrote
xJonnnnY wrote
TaigaAisaka wrote What motherboard and PSU do you currently have? Do you also have an AIO or liquid cooling?

Motherboard and PSU is important too as we need to make sure the case has the proper standoffs for your motherboard. PSU falls in line with making sure cables can reach your motherboard after being installed into the case and doing your cable management. Nothing worse than getting a case and finding out your PSU cables don't reach anymore and now you need to get an extender lol. If you have an AIO or liquid cooling, knowing the radiator size and if it was on top or in the front will help in making sure either of those will support the rad.


I have the B150 mortar and the evga 650 G2 as for the cooler it is just the stock cooler as I will be upgrading that in the future, so far my CPU temps haven't reached above 60C


If you don't have a DVD player/reader or any other component that would take an optical drive bay, I would probably opt for the Phanteks Eclipse P400. Mid tower case with a side panel that has a window. Magnetic dust filter on the top of the case. PSU shroud to make things look a little neater. Has enough room for cable management and fans (water cooling this case would be easy.) Looks to support 3 fans in the front - 2 if they are 140mm, 2 140mm on the top and 1 140mm on the back. Has a colour LED at the bottom of the case too if that's an interest. With the hardware you mentioned, it does say that some drive bays may be inaccessible due to the 1080's length; however, it doesn't even have an optical drive bay mount and it has 2 SSD and 2 HDD mounts behind the motherboard tray.



[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]




If you have an optical drive that you need to bring over, I would suggest the Phanteks Enthoo Pro M. Has pretty much the same thing as the P400, however no LED light on the bottom, the IO panel might be in an awkward position (in the front of the case to the side) and one SSD mount on the back of the motherboard tray instead of 2. Other than that, plenty of room for cable management, PSU shroud, magnetic dust filter on the top, HDD bays behind the motherboard tray as well as mountable HDD trays inside near the front. Looks to support 2 140mm fans on the top and front with 1 140mm in the back.

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]




The only other suggestion I would have if you don't need a case that supports an optical drive would be the NZXT S340, just personally, I don't like the S340 case. It seems way too bare inside the case when compared to other cases (really reminds me of the Corsair 750D in that sense) and I absolutely HATE what they did with the back of the motherboard tray. On paper, it seems good to try and help cable management by tucking all the access cables into it's own little hide-away shroud, but it looks really sloppy if you don't throw everything in there. Another problem with this is any right angled SATA connectors start to have an awkward bend once being tied to other cables back there that I personally wouldn't want at all. On top of that, if your cables are running a little short, you may have to mess up the cable management to make them reach their components, which might barely be enough and now there is a tension on the cable and connector. I'm sure there's a way to get them not to bend and negate any tension if any from a cable barely making it, but I would rather do cable management properly, instead of relying on a shroud meant to tuck and hide them away.


Yeah I think I'll go with the P400 thanks could you recommend some case fans as well if that alright ? And maybe a CPU cooler I can get later this year?


I've been using the Venturi fans for quite a while now and absolutely love them. They are a little pricey for just one fan however.

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

If that is getting too expensive for just one fan, Be Quiet! fans are also a great choice.

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

Both of those fans are 140mm. I believe your case comes with two fans as is, so you could either buy a total of 5 140mm fans and replace the ones your case comes with or get 3 fans and leave the two that come with your case. ALSO as a note, your motherboard does not have enough fan headers for all those fans. You will need to buy a fan hub. As for CPU cooler, what budget are you working with for that? Depending on the budget you can get an All In One cooler, which is a water cooled CPU (don't worry, you don't have to fill it with water or shape the tubing) or of course an aftermarket air cooler.


Yeah I'll probably go for the Venturi fans and I'll have a look at a fan hub, as for the CPU cooler probably around £70-80 thanks


My mistake as I forgot to ask, what CPU do you have? lol

Edit: While waiting on your CPU, since it's within budget, I would personally go with the Kelvin AIO.

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

It is a triple radiator, so it's going to be mounted in the front of the case. Always wanted a Kelvin, but they're apparently not sold in the US. One thing to think about though since it is going in the front of the case, the tubing may look a little "tacky" as it will be going along the path of the GPU. It shouldn't be touching the GPU at all, but if you want a dual-radiator AIO that can be mounted to the top of the case, there is a few within budget.

You can also get air options that will still cool your CPU down no problem all while at a cheaper price.

be quiet! Pure Rock Slim
be quiet! Dark Rock 3
(maybe) CRYORIG M9i

I say maybe on the CRYORIG M9i, simply because on Reddit people seem to be split in half when someone puts that on their build list. I can't get a concrete answer or reason as to why, so I'm just going to guess it's simply off the fact that there are better CPU coolers in that price range.


Yeah I'll have a look at a few of them I have the i5 6500 if that changes the options at all thanks for the help so far
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